Talmud su Ecclesiaste 4:9

“And the Ninth of Av.” ¹³²This paragraph also is in Ta`aniot 4:9, Notes 370–377. Rebbi Jeremiah in the name of Rebbi Ḥiyya, it should have been logical that one should fast on the Tenth, since on it it was burned. Why on the Ninth? Because the calamity started on it. So it was stated, on the Seventh they entered, on the Eighth they were misbehaving in it, on the Ninth they started the fire, and on the Tenth it was burned. Rebbi Joshua ben Levi fasted Ninth and Tenth. Rebbi Levi fasted on the Ninth and the night of the Tenth. Rebbi Abba bar Zavda in the name of Rebbi Ḥanina: Rebbi wanted to uproot the Ninth of Av but they did not let him. Rebbi Eleazar said to him, I was with you but it was not said so, but Rebbi wanted to uproot the Ninth of Av which fell on a Sabbath but they did not let him. He said, because it was pushed aside, let it be pushed aside. They said to him, let it be pushed to the next day. In a similar case, that which we stated there: “Rebbi Joḥanan ben Beroqa said, for both of them it says, God blessed them and God said to them, be fruitful and multiply¹³³Gen. 1:28., etc.” Rebbi Eleazar in the Name of Rebbi Ḥanina: Practice follows Rebbi Joḥanan ben Beroqa. Rebbi Abba bar Zavda said to him, I was with you and it was only said, if she asks to be married the law is on her side. He said about them, two are better than one¹³⁴Eccl. 4:9..

³⁷⁰This paragraph also appears in Megillah1:6 (מ). Rebbi Jeremiah in the name of Rebbi Ḥiyya, it should have been logical that one should fast on the Tenth, since on it our God’s Temple was burned. Why on the Ninth? Because the calamity started on it³⁷¹2K. 25:8.. So it was stated, on the Seventh they entered, on the Eighth they were misbehaving in it, on the Ninth they started the fire, and on the Tenth it was burned³⁷²Babli 29a, Tosephta 3:10.. Rebbi Joshua ben Levi fasted Ninth and Tenth. Rebbi Abun fasted Ninth and Tenth. Rebbi Levi fasted on the Ninth and the night of the Tenth. Rebbi Abba bar Zavda in the name of Rebbi Ḥanina: Rebbi wanted to uproot the Ninth of Av but they did not let him³⁷³Babli Megillah 5b.. Rebbi Eleazar said to him, I was with you but it was not said so, but Rebbi wanted to uproot the Ninth of Av which fell on a Sabbath but they did not let him. He said, because it was pushed aside, let it be pushed aside. They said to him, let it be pushed to the next day. In a similar case, that which we stated there³⁷⁴Mishnah Yebamot 6:6.: “Rebbi Joḥanan ben Beroqa said, for both of them it says, God blessed them and God said to them, be fruitful and multiply³⁷⁵Gen. 1:28., etc.” Rebbi Eleazar in the Name of Rebbi Ḥanina: Practice follows Rebbi Joḥanan ben Beroqa. Rebbi Abba bar Zavda said to him, I was with you and it was only said, if she asks to be married the law is on her side³⁷⁶If a woman is married childless for ten years she may ask the court to force her husband to give her a divorce with full payment of her ketubah. In her application to the court she must state that her request is in order to be able to marry another man (who implicitly is supposed to be more fertile than the first.) In the Babli Yebamot 65b she is required to state explicitly that she wants to marry another man in order to have children who will be able to care for her in her old age.. He said about them, two are better than one³⁷⁷Eccl. 4:9..

Rebbi Eleazar in the name of Rebbi Yose ben Zimra: The reason of that Tanna¹³³The last clause in the Mishnah, that only men are obligated to have children. The entire paragraph has its parallel in the Babli, 65b.: “Be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and conquer it.” It is written “he shall conquer it.¹³⁴Gen. 1:28. The last word is written וכבשה which can be read as defective plural or regular singular.” Who usually conquers? The man, not the woman. Rebbi Jeremiah, Rebbi Abbahu, Rebbi Isaac bar Marion, in the name of Rebbi Ḥanina: Practice follows Rebbi Joḥanan ben Beroqa. Rebbi Jacob bar Aḥa and Rebbi Jacob bar Idi, Rebbi Isaac bar Ḥaqula in the name of Rebbi Jehudah Neśia: If she requests to be married, she has the law on her side¹³⁵If a woman was childlessly married to a man for 10 years and requests a divorce in order to be able to have a child with a more potent man, the court is required to force the husband to divorce her with a full ketubah. The Babli is explicit in this matter, that she must claim to need children who will care for her in her old age. Such a statement is needed only if practice does not follow R. Joḥanan ben Beroqa.. Rebbi Eleazar in the name of Rebbi Ḥanina: Practice follows Rebbi Joḥanan ben Beroqa. Rebbi Abba bar Zavda said to him, I was with you and it was only said that if she requests to be married, she has the law on her side. In a similar case¹³⁶Involving R. Eleazar and R. Abba bar Zavda and an erroneous statement. In the Babli, Megillah 5a/b, the wrong statement is again given by R. Eleazar and the correction by R. Abba bar Zavda. From the insistence that the two cases are parallel, it seems that this should be the reading here also. But the text given here is confirmed by the parallel in Megillah1:1., referring to what we have stated there¹³⁷Mishnah Ta‘aniot 4:9.: “In the week in which the Ninth of Av¹³⁸The day of mourning for the destruction of the Temple. falls, it is forbidden to get a haircut and to wash. But on Thursday one is permitted, in preparation for the Sabbath.” Rebbi Abba bar Zavda in the name of Rebbi Ḥanina: Rebbi wanted to do away with the Ninth of Av but they did not let him. Rebbi Eleazar said to him, I was with you and it was only said that Rebbi wanted to do away with the Ninth of Av which happened to be on the Sabbath but they did not let him. He said, since it is pushed away, let it be pushed away. They said to him, it should be pushed to the next day. He recited on these¹³⁹Eccl. 4:9. From the text in Megillah, it seems that “he” is a third person, possibly R. Ḥaninah,: “Two are better than one.”